NEW ORLEANS, La.— Derrick Brown and Lathan Ransom both understand the letter of the law. They understand quarterbacks are going to be protected, and a defender can't hit a quarterback late and/or in the head and neck area. They accept that they each had flags called on them during the Panthers' 20-17 loss to the Saints, when hitting New Orleans quarterback Tyler Shough that extended scoring and eventually led to the game-winning drive.

They know the logistics of the calls; where things get frustrating for the two Panthers defenders, and the Panthers team as a whole, is knowing how fast things happen on the field, and that when Shough is running full speed, acting as a runner, there is only so much a defender can do.

"I think it should be up for discretion, not every single time he gets hit," argued Brown. "Like, let's make the call. None of them were vicious. I just don't understand it, but it is what it is."

Brown had an unnecessary roughness penalty late in the third quarter when he slid into Shough as the quarterback was also sliding on a keeper. The Saints' passer had already pumped to fake defenders out before taking off. As he slid, Brown did too, and the defensive lineman even attempted to turn his body to avoid putting his full weight on Shough. But it was too late.

"I mean, I'm 300 pounds," said Brown. "I'm going to start going down. Ain't much I could do to stop myself from going that way."

The 1-yard gain on the rush had an additional 15 yards added to it for the penalty, moving the Saints to the Panthers' 20-yard line. A couple of sacks backed the Saints up, but by then they were in field-goal range, and the field goal made it a one-possession game.

"I mean, we know how it is," concluded Brown. "They're going to protect the quarterback at all costs, so I mean it is what it is on that end, but you got to just play the game."

The Panthers still took a 17-10 lead into the fourth quarter and had chances to extend it, but were unable to capitalize, while New Orleans added a touchdown. Then, on the Saints' final drive, taking over with 0:57 seconds left from their own 8-yard line, Shough and crew moved quickly downfield.

With 12 seconds left, the Saints were facing a second-and-10 from the Panthers' 48-yard line and had no timeouts. Carolina put no interior linemen on the field and sent three safeties out, understandably assuming the Saints would throw.

New Orleans took advantage, sending Shough straight up the middle on a designed keeper. He picked up 4 yards before sliding. Ransom, knowing every yard matters when trying to get in field-goal range, flew in to make a stop. His slide aligned with Shough's to the Panthers' detriment.

"Every yard matters in that situation, so he's running the ball, I'm just thinking stop him as fast as I can," explained Ransom.

"It's difficult. We're trying to get every yard we could to stop them, so when he's running, I'm just thinking stop him as fast as I can, but he's a quarterback, so I've got to be more aware of the situation and just, I guess let him run by or let him, not run by but let him slide."

Added Brown of the call in that situation, "I think it was a BS call. It's one of those ones where he did it all day, he's sliding late, so I mean, I don't know what they want us to do for it. It is what it is on that end."

The penalty moved the Saints to the 29-yard line, putting them in field goal range for Charlie Smyth, who knocked through the 47-yarder for the win.

It's hard to know when a quarterback officially becomes a runner versus when he's still considered a QB who is just on the run. It's a conundrum that has confounded defenses in recent years as more and more quarterbacks have used the tactic in their games.

"We got to be able to rush the passer and account for that missing gap," pass-rusher D.J. Wonnum said, calling out himself and the defense for not getting Shough down more, before adding, "The new league is, every quarterback's going to move and get out of the pocket. We just got to play sound. We communicate before every snap what we're going to do. We just got to play off each other.

"Obviously, they protect the quarterbacks nowadays in this game, so you just have to learn from it, man. You just got to learn from that.

Added coach Dave Canales, "Those are difficult plays, but we have to be smarter in those situations. Tyler's done a great job running the ball in different situations, and we just have to be better about where we're approaching that tackle and making sure that we're not leading with our shoulder because as he goes down, you're going to end up in that head and neck area.

"They were good calls, and those are just situations we have to be more aware of where you're facing a really mobile quarterback."

There also seems to be some subjectivity to the call, at least in the Panthers' eyes. Bryce Young ran on a play as well, and while he didn't officially slide, he seemed to be hit as he was giving himself up. There was no flag, something Brown took note of on the sideline.

"They didn't say nothing to us," Brown shared, as to an explanation. "We saw it. We have been getting them all day, so," he said with a shrug.

While the Brown and Ransom penalties stand out for their timing and circumstances, the Panthers were hit with a season-high 11 penalties on the day for 103 yards. The Saints were penalized a good bit as well by Sunday's crew, with nine flags for 78 yards. But the 11 penalties were an anomaly for one of the league's least penalized teams.

Coming into Sunday, the Panthers had the third-fewest penalties called against them this season, averaging 5.46 penalties a game. To more than double that in one day was sobering.

"You can't win that way," admitted Brown. "Very few teams do, but I mean it's one of those situations where we can't have as many penalties."

Just as coaches and players watch film to see what went right or wrong on plays, they also watch film to assess penalties. So for now, Canales doesn't have a lot of insight into how or why they came about, but knows it will have to be one of the first things assessed.

"Maybe it's coming off the bye week," offered Canales. "What's resulted in not having penalties has been the discipline of how we've been playing.

"And, for all those penalties to show up the way that they did, this is something that we have to attack head-on and have those conversations about when they happened, how they occurred, and make sure that doesn't happen again."

There is no time to dwell on the disappointment, though, only on what can be done to address the problems. With two dates against the Bucs on the docket and both now needed to win the division, the Panthers know this loss will require a humbling response and a short memory.

"From the jump, it's been about grit, so I mean, this is what we do," said Brown. "So now we got to bounce back. We got to challenge every man in here as a man, and we got to go to work."